Tabitha Mason on the Magic of Zingerman’s & Cornman Farms

Tabitha Mason is the co-managing partner of Zingerman’s Cornman Farms, located in Dexter, Michigan. I spoke with Tabitha about her 10 years on the farm, and topics near and dear to her heart, from open-book management to magical wedding moments. Whether or not you’ve ever had the distinct pleasure of meeting this enthusiastic entrepreneur, prepare to be inspired by her sincere approach to giving great service, treating guests like family, and creating memorable experiences for all.

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Sara: Where did your career begin before you came to Ann Arbor?
Tabitha: I grew up in Frankenmuth, MI, an hour and a half north of Ann Arbor. I spent 16 years working at Bavarian Inn, a 1,200-seat German restaurant. Most of my time there was spent in catering-front-of-house. When I was going to college, I moved into sales and then created our off-premise catering division.

Sara: How were you introduced to Zingerman’s?
Tabitha: I have been a lifelong Zingerman’s fan. I would drive down from Frankenmuth with family or friends and go to the Deli. We’d buy all the things we needed to picnic at home and head back up north. I was always really impressed with the phenomenal food, but what was equally impressive was how I would get consistently great service.

Sara: Tell us about your path to working at Zingerman’s.
Tabitha: When my daughter graduated from high school, my husband John and I had this window to evaluate what we might want to do differently. I had seen a posting for the restaurant manager position at Zingerman’s Roadhouse. I had already met Alex, former chef and partner, and Ari, Zingerman’s co-founder,  at a wine dinner there. So I applied on a whim.

I really wanted to see what Zingerman’s was doing. I felt like they must have been attracting a different kind of applicant since everyone was giving such great service. I wasn’t feeling that where I was in my role managing people. When interviewing, I kind of went on a super secret mission to see what they were doing there. I discovered a few things. I realized that they were being really upfront about job expectations, including giving great service in all roles.

In my interview process for restaurant manager, a role in which I would be managing other managers, we talked a lot about servant leadership and giving service to staff. I was asked to demonstrate examples of strong relationships I’d maintained with people in other departments, like back of the house—I liked that a lot. They offered me the job. To John’s credit, he’s an incredibly supportive husband who really just wants me to be happy. I took the job and we moved our family to Washtenaw County in 2011. 

Sara: How did you make the move from the Roadhouse to Cornman Farms?
Tabitha: The Roadhouse is where I met Kieron [Editor’s note: Kieron Hales is Tabitha’s co-manager partner and the chef at the farm]. I was running the front of the house when he was running the back of the house. We both felt fiercely protective of our teams and what we were doing. So that meant that we would butt heads over what was the right thing to do or what was the right decision for the restaurant. I think that it helped us build an incredible working relationship. I think that we know each other, truly. We drive each other crazy, but we also have a lot of respect for each other.

Kieron wrote this vision for a business at Cornman Farms. He really saw it as a canning and jarring business. That’s what he wanted to do, jar green tomato chutney and other British concoctions. But that wasn’t going to pay the bills, So this idea of an event venue on a beautiful piece of land where people could see where the food comes from and how much work goes into it was born. It was really appealing to him. And to me, there’s no greater day to give someone great service than on their wedding day.

I had left the Roadhouse and was working at Zingerman’s Service Network as the service steward. My job was to teach, measure, reward, and define service at an organizational level. I also provided a lot of support for the farm when they opened. Setting up new systems, hiring and training staff, and things like that. I believed so strongly as I saw it come together that it was going to be successful. That’s when I was like, okay, I want you to take my money. Let’s go. I worked as an employee for a few years while I worked on my Zingerman’s Path to Partnership and became a co-managing partner in 2017.

Sara: What aspect of this business do you find the most rewarding?
Tabitha: My favorite thing we at Zingerman’s do is open book management. I think that there are a lot of places in the world that are really focusing on great service, regardless of industry. I think it used to be a huge differentiator for us. Now I feel like people expect great service everywhere, but open book management isn’t something that you see a lot in the world at large.

My husband was running a brewery when we lived in Frankenmuth. I had gone on a business trip to Salt Lake City and John called me and said, “I’ve been driving around for hours trying to psych myself up to make this phone call.” Never a great way for a conversation to start. He said he went to work and the doors were padlocked. This restaurant that he was running, where we were at the owner’s house regularly, closed without any warning. We had just bought a house and I was pregnant with our first son. We didn’t know what open-book management was then, but I knew immediately that we never wanted to experience that level of uncertainty again. And so when I discovered that element of Zingerman’s, I was like, this is what I’ve been looking for. I love working with employees and helping them see what goes into running a business.

When I worked at the Roadhouse, there was a server we hired (she’s still there) who came to huddle after serving for decades around Ann Arbor, and asked questions like: “We spend how much on labor? What is the food cost?” It changes how people see things and it helps them understand their role. I think that the more information we share, the better. It can be a challenge. People have to want to be involved, rather than simply do a job and go home. I really love open-book management.

Sara: Tell me about your new role on the Zingerman’s Stewardship Council.
Tabitha: I’m so excited. This five-member group, created in 2020, thinks about the governance of the Zingerman’s Community of Businesses as the founders used to do. With Paul retired and Ari a little less involved in the day-to-day, the Stewardship Council was created as part of succession planning. I really wanted to be a part of it. I applied for two reasons. One, I believe that when we’re sort of uncomfortable and learning, growth and great things happen. It’s been a long time since I’ve taken on something new. I feel like I’m good at what I do in the day-to-day, but I do know that you have to have some grit in order to continue to grow. I don’t want to be complacent in my role.

And two, I looked at it as a chance to participate. I wouldn’t want to own a business in any other organization. I never saw myself as an entrepreneur. I came from a family where women didn’t work. The idea that I was going to work outside of the home was already radical, so owning a business never crossed my mind growing up. Zingerman’s guiding principles, our commitments to the community, what we commit to doing for staff, and the things that we make and do, are really inspiring to me. I hold that dear.

Sara: How does Cornman Farms give back to the Dexter and Washtenaw County communities?
Tabitha: Our very first event at the farm was a fundraiser for Mott Children’s Hospital. So from the very first thing we did as a new business, we knew that being a part of the community was important to us. I had little kids at the time and Kieron was starting a family, so it was an easy cause for us to get behind, supporting this great resource we have right in our own backyard. We have a decade-long relationship with Mott to this day, particularly with the pediatric cardiology doctors. They were already friends of Zingerman’s and became really great friends of the farm, too. We’ve hosted numerous events for them from small dinners to annual fundraisers like Caden’s Full Throttle, a car show and auction.

We support a variety of other causes that are important to us such as Ellie’s Place, Garrett’s Space, Planned Parenthood, Food Gatherers, Merit’s FATE program, and the Red Shoe Foundation for Ronald McDonald House. We host events like Cook for a Cause where groups can come to the farm. Someone from the non-profit will come and talk to the group about the services the organization provides, and then together we will make meals to donate to the people those organizations serve. It’s really one of my favorite things that we do.

This year was the 10th anniversary of the Dexter Community Fund, which is part of the Ann Arbor Community Foundation. We reached out to them to offer our support and held a fundraiser for them, since we were both turning 10! 

Sara: As you just shared, you celebrated Corman Farms’ 10th year in business this past summer! What is the biggest change about the farm over those 10 years?
Tabitha: When we opened, same-sex marriage wasn’t legal. In 2014, every wedding that came here had a bride, so the room upstairs in the farmhouse was called the bridal suite. In 2024, because not every wedding has a bride and not every wedding has a groom, it’s now known as the dressing room.

When people call and say, “Do you have this date available? Here is my budget. P.S. It’s a same-sex marriage. Is that going to be a problem?” That breaks my heart. No one should have to ask that. I’m personally proud of the growth in how we changed language and imagery at the farm so everyone feels included. People can see themselves on our website and social media, regardless of what they look like or who they’re marrying.

Sara: What’s different about you 10 years later?
Tabitha: The pandemic really forced me to evaluate life and what I wanted to do. After 2020, we decided to close the farm one day a week. That way there was at least one day we could all schedule appointments and just have a day off. That was also when we started shifting to smaller events. Someone who’s looking to have a 20-person wedding and is very focused on a different type of experience—that is the kind of place I want to be. I want our culture to be safe and loving and supportive for employees and for guests. 

Sara: Tell me about your vision for the future of Cornman Farms.
Tabitha: I love the idea of us continuing to get better and better at the finer details. I think that the first 10 years were figuring out how to get really good at the service, the event, the wedding, the food. And now what we’re focusing on are all of these little tweaks that make a difference. Like finding out what would be meaningful to a guest, so that when they come on our property, they feel like they’re being doted on and their needs are anticipated.

Sara: What’s the biggest change from the vision you wrote before opening?
Tabitha: The vision is what success looks like without a lot of the “how” you’re going to get there. We wrote in our vision we were going to hold these large, 300 to 400-person events. As the business evolved over 10 years, we found that what we really wanted to do, and what people were asking for, were smaller events. After feedback from guests on their experience, reflecting on what we enjoy, and what made for a better work experience for our staff, we scaled back. We sold our big outdoor tent. Now we’re focused exclusively on offering intimate weddings, which we define as 75 or fewer guests. But we still do weddings six days a week.

Sara: That is always surprising to me, I’m sure others might be surprised by it too. Tell us more about weddings on weekdays.
Tabitha: Yeah, I think Thursday is probably our most popular day of the week to have a wedding! The majority of our couples don’t live here in Washtenaw County. They’re already traveling, or their friends and family are already traveling, and midweek weddings are a lower-cost offering. It’s a really great value if you have the flexibility. 

We had a wedding this past Monday for 14 people. The grooms both live in California, but one of their moms lives here in Michigan and wasn’t up to traveling. So they did a destination wedding—destination Dexter! They flew in on Saturday, picnicked with us on Sunday, and then came back on Monday for the ceremony and reception. They all arrived together, got ready together, had a beautiful ceremony, a really special meal, and then they all went up to northern Michigan for what they called a “familymoon.” We have found that the day of the week doesn’t matter, it’s the marriage that matters, which I love to see. It’s less about the party and more about the life they’re starting. You can do that on any day of the week.

Sara: When you think of Cornman Farms, what are you most proud of to be a part of?
Tabitha: I find it incredibly humbling that people choose us to host their wedding because it makes us part of their story forever. I have made lifelong friends and am even a godmother to a baby whose moms got married here. The relationships we build here are deep and special.

Sara: How many events did you host last year?
Tabitha: We host about 200 events every year, always with the goal of making every event feel like they’re the only one at the farm that year. Last year, 143 of those events were weddings. 

Sara: What does it take to be a great wedding planner?
Tabitha: There are so many places where you can get married, and am honored when someone chooses the farm. Wedding planning is a little bit of therapy, expertise, art, and science mixed together. Every couple’s needs are different. Couples often come to us with unexpressed expectations or expectations they don’t realize that they have. I love helping them figure out what’s important to them and how we can make it happen. 

Sara: What trends are you seeing in weddings for 2024 and 2025?
Tabitha: The trends around wedding timing and decor are all gone—anything goes. Today, it’s all about the couples, and creating a personalized and aligned experience. Years ago, we used to have this belief, that people were choosing small weddings because they had a smaller budget. What we’re seeing now is that people are having smaller weddings because they want to have a very specific experience. You can have 14 people and spend a thousand dollars a person and give them this really remarkable experience that they’ll talk about forever.

People care more than ever about the values of who they’re working with. We communicate how we support the LGBTQ+ community because even cis-gendered people want to know that where they’re spending their money and the vendors they’re choosing are in line with them as people. We get asked questions that we were never asked before, such as “How do you train staff on inclusivity?” 

We’re also seeing no more rules about titles and roles in the wedding. You can have anyone stand up in your wedding party regardless of gender, you can have an uneven number of people in the wedding party, you can have no wedding party. And also, the food is really important, it used to be what’s pretty and now people care more about what it is going to taste like.

Sara: Thinking back on all the weddings you’ve planned, I know each one is unique, but what is that one magical moment that they all have in common?
Tabitha: I am a boy mom so it always gets me when a groom dances with someone special to him at the reception. I can’t help but imagine my own boys 15 or 20 years in the future. That gets me every time.

I also really love the moment when the couple comes in right after they’ve gotten married, the wedding party still behind them. They come into the farmhouse or the barn after the ceremony. I get to see this sort of private moment that no one else gets to experience. They’re looking at each other and they’re just so happy. I think that’s a really special moment.

Sara: What’s the farthest a couple has traveled to be married in Dexter?
Tabitha: We regularly have couples from California and Texas. We’ve hit nearly every state, except for Hawaii and Alaska. That’s where I was born so I would be very excited to talk to someone from Alaska. The farthest a couple has ever had us travel is to Gunturstorff, Austria! We catered a wedding there for a couple who lives in Chicago. That was really fun and definitely the most mileage in Cornman Farms history.

Sara: Does your relationship with a client stop after the wedding is over?
Tabitha: Not at all. Sometimes it can, but for couples who want to build a connection that’s something that we really excel at. That’s part of the reason why we do our food pop-ups, like, fish and chips, Thanksgiving to-go, and picnics. Those events give families a chance to come back to the farm. This past summer at our Sunday picnics we had a mix of couples who’ve gotten married here (some with their kids!), couples who were thinking about getting married here, and some who had just booked. I love that I can stay in touch with people this way all these years later.

Sara: Inquiring minds want to know, how are the goats?
Tabitha: The goats are happy and healthy, but they don’t live here anymore. They live around the corner at another farm now. Couples can still request goats for photos.

Sara: This is probably hard to answer, but what is the most memorable event that’s ever taken place on the farm?
Tabitha: I can’t say favorite wedding because my gosh, we’ve had so many. One that really stands out that we still talk about is our first Indian wedding. When we first opened, we had a lot of very lovely weddings that all looked very similar. But the first Indian wedding was a really fun experience because we got to learn a lot about a completely different culture.

The family was very excited that we wanted to learn and understand and be more than just a space. They invited us to dress in traditional Indian clothing, so we did. There was music, fire, horses, singing, chanting, and dancing. That was a DAY! We had no idea what we were in for. It was completely different from a traditional Western wedding. That couple just came to visit over the summer for one of our pop-ups and they brought their two kids to show them where they got married.

It was a really wild and fun special day. I think that was one of the first weddings where we felt like family on the wedding day. That’s something that we hear a lot from our couples, you felt like an extension of our family.

Sara: For those who are not planning a wedding, how can they experience all the farm has to offer?
Tabitha: Definitely sign up for our e-news so you stay up-to-date on our food events. We try to do something every month at different price points that appeals to a variety of people. Cocktail classes, special guest chef or cookbook author dinners, holiday dinners to-go, and more.

Sara: If you were planning your own event, like your next big birthday, what space, music, and menu?
Tabitha: That is so fun. I did get to do this a little bit in 2022 because my daughter had her wedding here. Morgan, if you’re reading this, that was hands down my favorite event ever! But, John and I have been married for 20 years, and I think if I wanted to do a celebration here at the farm, it would definitely be in the farmhouse. I love how comfortable the farmhouse feels. I would probably do it in the winter so that we could have the fireplaces going and mulled wine on the stove as people walk in. 

The winter lends itself to some of my favorite foods. Think gathering with cocktails in the kitchen while the fireplace is roaring and then we sit down at one table in the farmhouse dining room. Some really warm delicious soup to start. I would probably give Kieron real creative liberty on the rest. He has been feeding me for 14 years, so he’s very well-versed in what I eat. There’s really nothing I don’t eat. And music. Gosh, I love live music. I’d love a little trio in the background. I’m a big fan of pop music made into classical music. I think that’s very fun. But John would probably just want us to use our piped-in sound system to play classic rock. Dim lights, lots of candles, lots of greenery.

Sara: Is there anything you won’t do at the farm?
Tabitha: We don’t serve shots. We don’t serve alcohol for more than five hours. We are serious about serving alcohol responsibly. We want to honor all of the things that go into legal and responsible alcohol service.  But if someone has an idea that we can safely, legally explore, we will!  

Sara: How far out into the future are you booked?
Tabitha: We always book just the current year plus one more. Because the property and what makes the farm beautiful changes year to year, we have to consider that in planning. What will the trees look like, what’s growing and where, where have we moved crops around to take care of the soil. So right now we are booking for 2025.

Sara: What is currently being grown on the farm grounds?
Tabitha: Lots of herbs. We use them not only in our cooking, but in cocktails, too. A basil gin gimlet or a rosemary or lavender French 75 are some favorites of mine. Summer savory is a really fun herb that not a lot of people know. We just used it to garnish a crudités board and a guest asked “What is on this board? It’s so pretty and it smells so good!” So I sent her an article: “Summer Savory…the Herb No One Knows About but Should be Using.”

We always have rhubarb. Kieron smuggled some in from his mum’s garden. We just finished the elderflower season so we made quarts and quarts of elderflower liqueur that we’ll use to make drinks and things in the future. Always tomatoes. Lots of nice greens. All are exclusively used here in our farmhouse kitchen.

Another thing that’s being grown here that I think is really special is our flowers. We have a plot of land that’s dedicated to flowers tended by Alex Finch of Finch Florals. She’s a florist who lives here in Dexter. We met a few years ago and she was really interested in growing her own flowers, so we gave her this plot of land to use at no charge. It gave her the opportunity to literally grow her business and gives us these really beautiful flowers on the property. Wedding couples love having their photos taken in the flower rows. She’s got some really beautiful arches covered with hops right now and she’s actually created a cross-bred Cornman Farms Dahlia. The Cornman Dahlia is a really pretty pink, but it has a lot of texture and it isn’t a solid pink. I think it’s pinky-purple. We’re hoping that next summer they’ll be officially certified and we will be able to sell a Cornman Farms Dahlia. Everything that’s grown here is used for our weddings. You can’t get more local than having your bouquet come from literally right outside.

Sara: What is it like working with Kieron?
Tabitha: Haha, I get to work with my life partner and my business partner. Imagine that. It’s fun. I know Kieron well. He knows me well. We really understand each other’s strengths and weaknesses. I think that if this farm only had one managing partner (ahem, me) it would be very well run, but very structured and we wouldn’t try a lot of new things. If there was only one managing partner and it was Kieron, it would be, to me, utter chaos, but a lot of new ideas. The balance of the two of us is a nice push and pull between staying true to what we’re really great at and getting better and better at what we do.

Sara: What is it like working with your husband?
Tabitha: I really love having John here, we will ride to work together when our schedules allow. The whole drive home, we’re allowed to talk about work. We get to jam all of our work stories in there and then once we get out of the car at home, we’re just Tabitha and John, a happily married couple and we need to find other things to talk about. So it comes with its own challenges but it is fun that when I tell a story now he knows all of the players and he gets to see what I do. I hope that helps him have a new appreciation for all the work that I put into these events.

Sara: Do your kids ever help out at the farm?
Tabitha: They do! My boys are 15 and 17 years old now. They work here in the kitchen with their dad. Sam, my 17-year-old son, wants to go to culinary school, and Tommy, my 15-year-old, loves to buy expensive clothing, so that keeps them motivated to come to work.

Sara: Your sons, husband, and business partner all cook at the farm. Do you ever cook?
Tabitha: I exclusively cook at home. I love it. That’s how I show love and care. It’s important to me to make food for my family and put it on the table. I love to cook, but John’s in charge of grilling. And he is a great at-home sous chef because I don’t want to actually dice onions or chop carrots or debone a chicken.

Sara: What do you like to cook?
Tabitha: We eat a lot of tacos because my boys will eat anything in a tortilla shell. So Korean tacos, turkey tacos, it doesn’t matter what the flavor combo is. We love tacos. The Zingerman’s managing partners all took a trip earlier this year to Mexico City and Oaxaca and I learned about tortilla making. Sam and I bought a tortilla press and the nixtamalized corn we needed to make proper fresh tortillas at home. Sam loves to be my tortilla maker, I make the filling, and then Tommy and John just eat whatever we put in front of them.

Sara: What would they say it’s like working with you?
Tabitha: I think they would say that I run a tight ship. It’s really important to me to do what we say that we do and to honor the commitments that we’ve made to employees and guests. I love to have a good time and I also like to work really hard. I want to make sure that when people come to work or guests come to the property, they feel like they are the most important thing. I hope that they appreciate the structure that I bring. They’ll tell you that I am nothing if not consistent.

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I don’t know about you, but I can’t help but root for Tabitha, her family, her business, and what the future holds for them. Her heartfelt hard work makes everything brighter for every person she serves. Her commitment to bettering our community of businesses and the communities we do business in is a shining example of doing business differently. 

Sara Hudson
Former Zingerman’s Creative Services Director

P.S. Goats. Austria. Tacos. Bet you didn’t have those on your Zingerman’s Newsletter Interview bingo card!

Roadhouse Chef Bob Bennett reflects on his Zingerman’s career

Within sniffing distance of the eight-foot oak-wood pit smoker and earshot of the sizzling stainless steel flat-top grill, Chef Bob Bennett from Zingerman’s Roadhouse sat down with me for a chat. We reminisced about the start of his Zingerman’s career at the turn of the century, struggled to narrow down Roadhouse menu favorites, and reflected on the special community we’re a part of. Read on to experience a few morsels of his earnest and heartfelt approach to cooking and working. And don’t miss those menu picks! It was a tough job (as Bob says “Like picking from my children!”), but he pulled through for you.
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Sara: We’ll call this an icebreaker. How many pairs of socks do you have and what’s your favorite pair?
Bob: [Laughs] I do have a lot of socks. I probably have a dozen pairs that I rotate through the most. Hedley & Bennett (Editor’s note: no relation!) makes a soft, super cozy sock that I wear pretty much exclusively. They’re made for people who are on their feet all day, and they stand out with their patterns, which I enjoy in a sock. My favorite is a color block and polka dot pattern called “Wake Up and Fight.”

Sara: What first brought you to Zingerman’s in 2001 when you joined the Deli?
Bob: I was working my first restaurant job in downtown Ann Arbor and one of my friends was working part-time there and part-time at the Deli. He was like, “Hey, I think you could do really well on the sandwich line.” I felt like I could use a change so I went on a trial shift. I was at the Deli for two and a half years. At the time I was going to Eastern Michigan University studying psychology. A degree I thought I was probably never going to use, but maybe I use a lot working in a restaurant. It gave me more tools to be helpful, be a better listener, and have more empathy. After moving over to the Roadhouse, I decided I was going to stay in cooking and go to culinary school at Washtenaw Community College.

Sara: In just a few words, what do you love about the Roadhouse?
Bob: For myself, it always comes back to the people. The relationships we’ve made with those that we work with, our customers that come in, and our vendors. That brings me a lot of joy and makes me feel pretty good about what we’re doing.

Sara: You have been with the Roadhouse since before its doors opened in 2003, even helping paint the walls. If those walls could talk, what would they say?
Bob: They would say this place has grown a lot! It’s an interesting question that I have never even thought about. The changes from that summer before we opened to almost 21 years later. The different things we’ve added, like a patio, a gluten-free fryer, in-house butchering, and so on. And then there’s looking back on all the folks that have come through our front door, the different things we’re able to do for people, and being part of their memories.

Sara: What is different about the Roadhouse today than when it opened 21 years ago?
Bob: We certainly know our identity, what we know about food, what we know about ourselves, what we want to put forward, and how to uplift the community around us. We’ve done a really good job over the years of building our culture and creating connections. Working in the kitchen can be stressful but we know how to have a good time. Also, people know they can step back and ask for help and they will be supported. So I think we’ve done a good job of building that identity for ourselves.

Sara: What’s different about you 21 years later?
Bob: I talk sometimes. [Laughs] Not having a whole lot of experience with food going into working here, I was super nervous. When I first started I had never cooked a hamburger or a steak. I grew up on Hamburger Helper and hot dogs with boxed mac and cheese. But I had a willingness to come in early, stay late, and learn. I knew I could work hard and I just wanted to get better at what I was doing. Now, I feel more confident and experienced which enables me to talk to guests in the dining room and be a leader in the kitchen.

Sara: How has working at Zingerman’s impacted your career and your life?
Bob: Since I’ve worked here over half my life, and nearly all of my culinary career, I would say it’s had a huge impact! I tell people it’s like the unicorn job. I don’t think there’s anywhere else like it out there. We bring our staff in and really support them in a lot of ways. And we are always pushing each other to learn more about what we’re doing. I went to culinary school, but realistically I learned more working here. From reading countless cookbooks to visiting BBQ joints in Charleston and chicken spots in Nashville to receiving a Zingerman’s staff scholarship to study cooking in Oaxaca, Mexico. There are all these different opportunities for those who want to step in and take advantage of them. Getting to work around top-notch service providers and people who know a lot about food has always made me want to learn more. Next up on my list is touring part of the Texas barbecue circuit and hopefully, sneak into a kitchen or two.

Sara: How would you describe the Roadhouse to those who have not been?
Bob: I would say we try to make people feel at home. It’s comfortable and lends itself to a lot of different occasions. Whether you’re just going out for some oysters and wine with friends, a burger and a beer after work, or celebrating an anniversary, birthday, or bar mitzvah! It’s also a place where you really can’t go wrong on the menu. There are so many options for so many folks.

Sara: The neon sign out front states “Really good American food.” What does that mean to you?
Bob: It could mean a whole lot of different things, but at our core, it’s traditional Southern foodways. We focus on grits and greens and fried chicken and whole hog barbecue. We’re a scratch kitchen, so we’re butchering whole sides of beef in-house and frying chicken to order. We’re also recognizing the diversity of where we are in the world, being thoughtful about honoring the folks we’re bringing to the table, whether it’s a small farmer and a local crop or chefs who came before us and traditional recipes. I think we try putting food and tradition out there in a respectful way.

Sara: What makes traditional barbecue?
Bob: There’s a lot of things that define it. I grew up knowing barbecue as burgers on a gas grill. Traditional barbecue is a long process that takes serious work. Usually, it’s six to eight hours. You use local wood, so each region has its own flavor twist. Each one’s a little bit different. I think it’s honoring the whole animal, like our whole hog barbecue where we’re using snout to tail. There’s a lot of skill that goes into traditional barbecue in terms of getting the fire right, especially in the elements, and knowing just when to pull the smoked meat off the pit. As you look through history, barbecue was a centerpiece of church events, political events, and other community events that brought people together. It becomes this gathering point. Traditional barbecue is a kind of storytelling, the ingredients and techniques are passed on from person to person, generation to generation. We first learned from pitmaster Ed Mitchell from North Carolina here at the Roadhouse. And we’ve been practicing and refining it ever since.

Sara: What is unique about Roadhouse barbecue?
Bob: We’re outside barbecuing, rain or shine, sleet or snow, like 362 days a year. Being able to barbecue in the elements is one of the hardest things to do. Whether it’s raining or it’s hot, each adds variability to how we’re smoking and cooking things. I think our barbecue continues to evolve and grow. We were probably one of the first and still one of the only places in Michigan that does whole hog barbecue. We just brought in a new hog, a heritage breed called the red waddle. It was almost extinct in the ’90s, but we linked up with a 4th generation farmer named Matt Bailey out in Schoolcraft, Michigan who raises them. It’s one of the best barbecue hogs I’ve ever had. We’re gonna start doing Texas barbecue, which is beef brisket that doesn’t have sauce. It is just meat on display. I’m excited about what we’re bringing to the table.

Sara: Red Rage, North Carolina, or South Carolina barbecue sauce?
Bob: Red Rage. I love our other sauces just as much, but that’s what I put on more things because it’s just really good.

Sara: Macaroni and cheese or grits?
Bob: Like picking my favorite child! [Long pause] I would say grits, just because I feel like with the mac and cheese I almost need a certain time of day to really enjoy it, one where I can sit down for a few minutes afterward. Grits I can eat at any time of the day. I like everything about good grits. We get our heirloom grits from the great folks at Anson Mills in North Carolina. I like the creaminess that comes out and how well it melds with the corn flavor when you cook them well. I like the simplicity of their grits and how well they go with and stand up to so many different flavors. 

Sara: Sweet potato fries or mashed potatoes?
Bob: Sweet potato fries for sure. I love our mashed potatoes, but the sweet potato fries with the spicy mayo? I always tell people they are our secret weapon. They’re awesome.

Sara: Pit-smoked chicken or fried chicken?
Bob: Fried chicken, for sure. When we were growing up, my family didn’t do much cooking for family gatherings, but we ate a whole lot of fast food fried chicken. Ours is 200 times better in my book, so it’s one of my favorites. I can’t really get enough of it.

Sara: What do you think makes Roadhouse fried chicken so good?
Bob: Our attention to the details. There’s really good chicken coming in our back door. Bringing in fresh, high-quality products is always a good starting point. Then it’s marinated for 24 hours. I think that the spice on it is pretty good. That seasoned, crispy, crunchy outside. We make it to order, and you can see the person making it. That’s just a cool thing in my mind and adds a whole lot to it.

Sara: Donut sundae or brownie sundae?
Bob: [Said with zero hesitation] A donut sundae, for sure. The donuts by themselves are something fresh out of the fryer. But when you top it with some Creamery gelato, fresh whipped cream, and bourbon caramel sauce? It’s an event.

Sara: If you were to recommend three items to a Roadhouse first-timer, what would they be?
Bob: 1. Whole hog barbecue. Whether that’s the plate or the sandwich. This continues to be one of my favorite things that we do.
2. North Carolina shrimp. Whether it’s a shrimp burger or shrimp po boy. They are just outstanding, probably the best shrimp I’ve ever had. They’re caught the right way. I don’t think anyone is really getting them outside of North Carolina. They’re delicious.
3. Ribeye steak. My favorite cut. Ours is butchered in-house. We break down two whole steers a week. For about 16 years we’ve worked with a company called E. R. Boliantz. They coordinate with Northern Ohio farmers to bring us Black Angus steers. They are treated well, and the meat is super consistent with a really nice flavor. The steak is aged and cooked over oak. They’re pretty awesome.

Sara: Your sides with that steak?
Bob: Bacon-braised greens. They blew me away when I started here and still do. Braised greens were not on my radar growing up or even in my young adulthood. They are awesome. I go with the grits second, which I still love and I could eat any time. You never know if you’re gonna have room for that third one. I would probably go with the pimento mac and cheese.

Sara: I love the Roadhouse Just for Kids menu because there are so many options. What do your kids order?
Bob: I have an eleven-year-old son and a four-year-old daughter. She is still firmly in the mac and cheese stage. She’ll eat any pasta that’s in front of her. My son is just starting to be like, “I think I want a whole burger or a full basket of chicken.” He has always been a fried chicken leg guy, but now he is in love with scallops. He yells at me if he comes in and we don’t have them. He’s like “Who’s running this place?” [Both laughing]

Sara: Earlier you mentioned the Roadhouse being a place where people celebrate events and milestones. What type of event is the most frequently celebrated?
Bob: Judging from the amount of birthday desserts that I see leaving the kitchen, birthdays are definitely up there. (Editor’s note: Enjoy a free Donut Sundae on your birthday at the Roadhouse!) I think with the size of our restaurant and our capacity we’re uniquely suited for a lot of different celebrations, so we see engagements, wedding rehearsal dinners, anniversary parties. Only a handful of weddings.
Sara: Wait, what?!
Bob: I would say three or four. A couple of them even included the ceremony.

Sara: What do you think the Roadhouse’s role is in the Ann Arbor community?
Bob: I think our role is being that place that folks can rely on. Kind of that bellwether in a storm where people know come rain or shine that Monday through Sunday, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, we’re going to be open for them and we’re gonna have a meal for them. We have a warm place at the table for them. I think that’s our role. And regardless of where they’re from or what they like, they can find something for themselves on the menu. It can even be a place where our kids grow up. Lately, when we present our Welcome to the Roadhouse class to new staff members, some say, “This is the first restaurant I ever ate at so of course I’m working here.” Being that place for a lot of folks is pretty awesome.

Sara: I know you step out of the kitchen and spend some time in the dining room from time to time. What do you learn from talking to the customers?Bob: Usually Friday and Saturday nights I’m pretty much stationed in the dining room talking to folks at the chef’s counter and tables in the dining room. I think it’s a lot of fun getting to meet folks outside of the kitchen walls, hearing their stories, where they’re from, and what brought them in that night. Being able to just build those relationships with folks, I think that’s pretty cool. It’s a lot of fun to share new items on the menu and involve them in the process, asking them to taste it and tell me what they think. It’s a lot of fun for me and I think for them because I don’t think many folks expect that when they go out to eat.
Sara: Now that you say that, I’ve been offered samples at the Roadhouse many times. I can’t think of another restaurant that’s ever brought me a free sample.

Sara: How do you think having the Westside Farmers’ Market in your restaurant parking lot influences the restaurant and the menu?
Bob: I think it’s one of the cooler things that we do, having that direct connection to farmers. When we talk about our role in the community, of being a place where the community gathers, I don’t know if there’s a better place for that than a farmers market. Come through and buy produce straight from the farmers and also enjoy it at the Roadhouse. Being able to go out and get something from a farmer and put it on the menu that night is a pretty cool thing. And we get to build these long-lasting relationships with the folks out there. They’ll stop by at other times and say, “Hey, I had this row of green beans that I thought weren’t gonna grow anymore. Would you like them?” Which is an awesome thing for me personally and a cool thing for the restaurant.

Sara: What are you looking forward to in the fall that you will be putting on the menu?
Bob: In early fall it’s peppers. There are so many different things that we can do with those. We will probably have some form of panzanella salad using roasted squash and peppers. Then as we get further into autumn, it’s squash and carrot season, so we’ll really be bringing those to the forefront. One of the new farms we’ve been getting our lettuce greens from will have some spicy greens in the fall. There’s very little I’m not excited about.

Sara: What’s next for the Roadhouse?
Bob: One of the things in front of my mind is elevating the visibility of our barbecue program. I think we’re probably one of the best barbecue places in Michigan and I’d like to showcase that and bring it to more folks. Also, we’re looking at how we refresh ourselves—a dining room facelift, updating our training, and innovating the service that we’re giving to our staff and our guests. We will always look to improve on things.

Sara: What’s next for you?
Bob: I want to be here and continue to grow, both myself and the restaurant. I don’t imagine working anywhere else because I don’t think there’s anywhere else like this. I really enjoy the folks I get to work with and our vision for the future. I’d like to focus on what restaurant work looks like and different ways I think we can move forward and improve the quality of life for a lot of folks. Not just in this restaurant, but all restaurants.

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

I feel like giving a hug and eating a fried chicken leg, and maybe hugging a fried chicken leg. Perhaps I need some warm Roadhouse bread and biscuits with butter and honey, too. How about you? Say hi to Bob for me if you dine at the chef’s counter. Enjoy the really good American food, really great service, and a side of community spirit and barbecue sauce. Try them all!

Sara Hudson
Zingerman’s Creative Services Director

The soul of the Seoul food served at Miss Kim

Sitting at a sunny summer patio table in Ann Arbor’s Kerrytown I caught up with Ji Hye Kim, chef and managing partner of Miss Kim, Zingerman’s Korean restaurant. We talked about her food philosophy, approach to running a business, what’s new, and what’s not going to change. If you’ve never had the pleasure of dining at Miss Kim, read on for a primer on where to point your chopsticks first. If you’re already a big fan, read on for more of the story behind those swinging kitchen doors. 

Sara: How would you describe the experience at Miss Kim to someone who has never been before?
Ji Hye: The ambiance is nice. I think it’s comfortable and casual, without being like a quick service place. We have proper dining service that is friendly and not super formal. Our servers are very good at getting you delicious food regardless of your dietary restrictions or preferences. You came into our house—we want to make sure you have really good food and a really good time.

Sara: What sets Miss Kim apart from other Korean restaurants?
Ji Hye: I think the experience you have with the food is different from other Korean restaurants in Michigan, or the Midwest in general, because we pay a lot of attention to the tradition and culinary history. What I try to do is see the essence and story of the dish. I want to see how that translates here because Korean food has distinctive regional cuisines. Korea is smaller than most single states in the United States, but it’s regionally varied. Food travels with the people, so food in South Korea may look different than in North Korea, on the China-North Korea border, and where Korean Russians were exiled into Central Asia. So, I think it’s a continuation of the story of where Korean food lands in Michigan and our take on things. Our menu has one foot in culinary history and another foot firmly planted in the soil of Michigan. I feel each dish has a long story in Korea and I’m adding one sentence at the end because this dish landed in Michigan.

Sara: Does Miss Kim’s food focus on any one of those many Korean regional cuisines?
Ji Hye: It’s not part of our vision to specifically focus on the food of one region, but because my mother is from Gyeonggi Province (the central part of Korea where Seoul is located) and that’s the food that I grew up eating, there is an influence. When I started researching Korean food, I realized some of the dishes she was making for me were specific to that region. My friends whose moms came from a different region didn’t know what they were.

Korea is similar to Italy in that way. Southern Italian food is a little saltier; Calabrese cuisine is a little spicier; in Liguria, in the north, they use more butter. Southern Korean food is saltier, spicier, and the seasoning is heavier. They use more fish sauce because they’re on the seaboard. North Korean food, out in the mountains, tends to be milder. They don’t use as much salt and the dishes tend to be simpler and more humble. Seoul is right in the middle so they go for balance, and maybe a touch sweeter. Also, Seoul, the capital of Korea for 600 years or so, is where all the ingredients in the supply chain ended; so Seoul food tends to be more varied in the ingredients, rather than focusing on seafood on the coast or foraged mushrooms and greens in the mountains. So I think some of our dishes reflect Seoul cuisine and the Gyeonggi region. 

Sometimes even Korean people will come in and comment that our kimchi is too mild, but that is by design. (Though sometimes they assume it’s because I don’t know how to make it.) Kimchi from the southern part of Korea is saltier, spicier, and bolder in flavor, but kimchi from the Gyeonggi area in the middle of the country tends to be milder and crunchier—they want you to taste the vegetable. So that’s why our kimchi is on the milder side.

Sara: What does your mom think about Miss Kim?
Ji Hye: [Laughing] She doesn’t think much of it. She wants to know if I’m making enough money to be comfortable and that it’s not too hard on my body. Other than that she is not relinquishing her title of the best cook in the family. 

She’s not super fond of the fact that I use some American vegetables like beets or asparagus. She’s just kind of like “eh” [waving hand up] “It’s not a Korean vegetable.” She can make a lot of food that we make very easily so she doesn’t think it should be as priced as it is. If you know how to make really good spaghetti bolognese you may not want to pay $35 for a bowl of spaghetti bolognese. It’s sort of a similar idea. She thinks I can make mushroom japchae at home. Really cheap and it’s just as delicious. Why should I pay this much money, but she’s also not paying for rent, living wages and benefits for staff, local mushrooms, and all of that stuff. So basically she’s not impressed [still laughing].

Sara: What was your inspiration for learning to cook?
Ji Hye: Sometimes you read interviews with chefs and they’re like “I knew that I wanted to be a chef when I was three and making raviolis in my Nonna’s kitchen,” or, “I’ve been working in the kitchen since I was 14 and I used to sleep on a potato sack in my mom’s restaurant.” That is not my story. My mom is the firstborn in the family and so is my father, so that meant that every holiday was spent at our house, but she didn’t really let kids cook. She had a lot of cooking to do and teaching kids to cook is a whole different job and she didn’t want to be bothered. I wasn’t gonna be that helpful. She was like, “Out of my kitchen!” One time I asked if she could show me how to make this and that and she’s like, “No, you were born a girl. You’re going to end up in the kitchen anyway cooking for a husband or a child. You don’t need to start now.” She herself didn’t learn to cook until she got married. So I didn’t learn from her. 

I learned much later from working and being self-taught. But I knew my mom was a really good cook. She made a lot of things from scratch, like gochujang fermented chili paste. When I was really young she had these crocks of what I thought were really stinky magic potions—fermented sauces—out on the balcony of our apartment complex. She would get fresh pressed sesame oil delivered from her mother who lived in the countryside. She really cared about ingredients. And I would watch her cook. I think that helped a lot when I started cooking. As I was learning Korean recipes, I just knew how to go about it a lot faster than when I was learning to make Italian or American food. I would remember how my mom did it. I had these peripheral memories, this knowledge bank I didn’t know I had, from watching her. She’s my accidental inspiration in that way.

I continued to learn about paying attention to ingredients by working at Zingerman’s. My appreciation for traditional cuisine and knowing the story behind it, that came from Zingerman’s.

Sara: If you were having someone build a Korean recipe-ready pantry what would you recommend?
Ji Hye: I would make sure that they have sesame seeds, sesame oil, soy sauce, doenjang (fermented soy paste), gochujang (fermented chile paste), and fish sauce. The flavors are a balance between salty, sweet, and spicy.

Sara: What do you think is the biggest misconception about Korean cuisine?
Ji Hye: People tend to think that Korean food is a set of this or tastes like that. It’s not a monolith. Take kimchi for example. There are over 200 documented versions of kimchi. Every region has a different take on it and every season provides a different kind of kimchi. Somebody said there are as many types of kimchi as there are moms in Korea. I mean it sort of allows for that diversity to flourish.

I think that’s one of the biggest misconceptions of food when people think of “ethnic food.” That is only one way. Your one trip to Thailand, or India, or Korea, and then that is your definition of that food. Or if you’re Korean American and you grew up with the food your mom made and you understand that to be the only version of Korean food. There are so many types. It expands in many ways, regionally, seasonally, by price point. It evolves. No one person’s experience represents an entire cuisine.

Sara: If you were to make a brand new customer three Miss Kim dishes, which would you pick and why?
Ji Hye: 1. Fried Tofu. I actually kind of dislike tofu, but I know that when I eat something and I don’t like it, I always leave room that maybe I just never had a good version of it. So, I leave my mind open to be changed. This dish is a converter. That’s why I picked it. I think our tofu plays a lot with texture and flavor. Externally it’s shatteringly crispy. Inside the soft tofu is custardy. I think it’s a fun dish to eat. This is what I call a mind changer. If you don’t like tofu try this dish.

Sara: I can confirm. It’s one of my favorites for the same reasons. I was once at a ZingTrain seminar and Miss Kim food was served for lunch. The first thing to run out on the buffet was the fried tofu. People were telling others to try it.

Ji Hye: 2. Tteokbokki. (For those unfamiliar, it’s a small baton-shaped, stir-fried, soft and chewy rice cake.) Our menu changes from time to time, but we always have a few different kinds of tteokbokki on the menu such as classic street style with gochujang, scallions, pork belly lardons, and poached egg. I think this dish can tell the story of Korea. It started out as sort of a luxurious dish because you take this much cooked rice [holding up both hands] and turn it into these little rice cakes [holding up the thumb and forefinger]. It used to be just street food and now there are so many iterations. Some chefs are using it like rice pasta and serving it with butter sauce, gorgonzola cream, or mozzarella cheese. It’s a fun evolution to watch and we’re looking to add more versions to our menu, like with a tomato vodka sauce. Growing up, tteokbokki was a dish I ate on the streets, sneaking it behind my mom’s back because she didn’t really approve of it, so I feel a personal connection to it.

3. Vegetable Twigim. Seasonal vegetables are quick pickled and fried in the same type of crispy rice flour batter (gluten-free) we use for our Korean fried chicken, then served with spicy mayo. Seasonality is really important in Korean cuisine (the Korean Farmers Almanac has 24 seasons!) and on our menu. We reflect the seasonality of Michigan produce in our dishes. For these fried vegetables, you might find us using cauliflower, green beans, or green tomatoes.

Sara: And a drink to go with it? What’s special about the bar at Miss Kim?
Ji Hye: We focus on traditional Korean drinks. We have plum syrup-flavored soda, cinnamon drink, banana milk, rice wine, and soju. Soju is a sweet grain-based distilled alcohol. I’d say it’s half as strong as vodka. We infuse soju with different Épice de Cru spices and Rishi teas. There’s soju infused with black tea that emulates a light whisky, it has a lot of smoky notes. We also have rose, hibiscus, black sesame, and yuzu—you can order a soju sampler. We’re hoping to bring in an artisanally made rice wine from Brooklyn this summer.

Sara: How does being located at the Kerrytown Shops benefit the restaurant?
Ji Hye: I think our proximity to the Ann Arbor Farmers Market sets the tone of the menu. I have really good relationships with the farmers I’ve been working with for 10 years, since our pop-up days. I wish we were bigger so we could buy from even more local farmers, but there are a few we are really committed to. Kerrytown is a little more neighborhood-like as opposed to being located on Main Street or South University, which I like. It’s a nice place to park and walk around for things to do and then have a cocktail and dinner.

Sara: How often do you go to the Ann Arbor Farmers Market?
Ji Hye: I try to go every farmers market day (right now that’s Wednesdays and Saturdays). The farmers know me and generally know what I am buying, so sometimes they’ll put it aside or deliver it to the restaurant. I still go to the market even if I don’t have a lot of things to buy because it’s a big inspiration to me. 

Sara: What are you most looking forward to coming back in season at the market this summer?
Ji Hye: Corn and tomatoes [said with zero hesitation]. We’ll bring back dishes like miso corn with scallops; tomato salad with soft tofu and wasabi dressing; tomato salad with peaches, hot peppers, and mustard dressing; or pickled and fried green tomatoes. 

Personally, I buy nettles. I can never find enough nettles for me to put them on the menu for the restaurant. But every time I see nettles, I buy them. I blanch them, squeeze out the water, and keep them in the freezer. Sometimes I dress them in sesame oil, garlic, soy sauce, and sesame seeds and eat them as a side dish. Or I might use it as a topping on bibimbap. Or I zip them with a little water and maple syrup and drink it as green juice.

Sara: What is different about Miss Kim today than when it opened eight years ago?
Ji Hye: I think the biggest difference is that we have way more vegetables and vegetarian dishes on the menu. I knew before opening I wanted to have more than ribs and fried chicken. We didn’t start with many vegetarian items, but it was always a goal. Now we’re getting to a good balance. I actually just crunched the numbers and 56% of the dishes on the menu are vegetable-focused. It may not be vegetarian, like the roasted broccolini with fish sauce caramel, but it is really the broccoli we are showcasing.

Sara: What is different about you eight years after opening a restaurant?
Ji Hye: I sweat the small stuff a little less. Everything felt important and urgent then, but when you work that way it doesn’t give you room to breathe and doesn’t make you the best manager. I am better about prioritizing and I am a better leader now.

Sara: What’s been the most surprising thing for you about owning a business?
Ji Hye: How much work I would do telling our story—the story of the food, the restaurant, how we pay people, and how we do things. I didn’t realize how much telling of the story was involved in running a small business.

Sara: Who are you telling the story to?
Ji Hye: Customers dining with us, our staff, media interviews, community non-profits, and local students. I speak to students at Huron High School in the culinary program, at Ross School of Business in marketing, at the University of Michigan in nutrition, and others. I am very open with them about all of our information so they invite me back.

Sara: What’s most rewarding for you about owning a business?
Ji Hye: When the team does well. One thing I think nobody tells you when you start a business is how long it takes to build a culture. When I worked at Zingerman’s Deli, the culture was already established, so onboarding a new employee and having them buy-in is a little easier. But when you’re starting from scratch, there’s no culture established yet, and you have to create it as you go with every single person including yourself, I think that takes three to four years.

But by our third year in business, we were dealing with the pandemic. That time forced us to pay more attention to building our team and culture. We’re definitely a Zingerman’s business, but I think we have our own distinctive personality. We work as one team because we are a tip-share restaurant—we get paid as a team. We talk about money a lot precisely because it has a monetary consequence. 

Sara: Why did you decide to open your restaurant as a Zingerman’s business?
Ji Hye: I took five years on the path to partnership to really suss out if this is what I wanted to do. People ask me why I don’t have Zingerman’s name on my awning, assuming I am not getting the benefit of Zingerman’s if I don’t. I actually think that’s not true. To me, the biggest benefit of being a Zingerman’s business is the community. So when big things like the pandemic happen, or even if you’re just having a frustrating day, you always have someone who can be your sounding board. I think that’s incredibly important if you’re running a small business. Because it can feel like you’re working in a vacuum. Somedays I do feel that way, but then I remember I have a community to go to.

I think in practical terms, Zingerman’s Service Network is really important. Having that support system allows me to not worry about those things, the specialties that are not in my wheelhouse. I don’t want to be dealing with payroll for example. I know many restaurateurs who spend hours and days doing these things or they have HR issues and no one to go to. Then you have a trained fine dining chef ending up as the house accountant and they’re not looking at the food. I don’t want to create my own marketing posters. I’m not going to do a good job and it’s going to take me longer. Having our Service Network experts to do that frees me up to do other stuff. They take those things off my plate so I can do the things only I can do—researching recipes because I read the Korean language, or telling the story of our food, or being in the front as the chef representing the restaurant. Being part of Zingerman’s and having the support allows me to do those things better. 

Sara: You work shifts at Miss Kim in a variety of jobs. What’s your favorite thing to do?
Ji Hye: My favorite thing to do is either hosting or expediting. To me, those two positions are similar and really important for the same reason. They both set the tone and the pace for the service of the food. The host is the first person you see when you walk into the restaurant. They set the tone for the guests and the pacing for the servers. Their communication is important and they can start the experience off on a good foot. The expeditor decides who gets the appetizer first and which entrée is going out when. When I do it, I know things like we aren’t late with these tickets now but we will be in 10 minutes so we can go and take care of the guest. I can do a lot from that spot. I sometimes pour water like Ari does when I am a food runner, so that way I can see every dish and touch every single table.

Sara: What’s next on the calendar for you and Miss Kim?
Ji Hye: We have a collaboration dinner with guest food writer and new cookbook author Khushbu Shah at Miss Kim in July. While it’s a different cuisine, Indian food, her approach is similar to what we do in that she makes traditional Indian food with her own Michigan spin. I’m also doing a pop-up at Seoul Salon in Manhattan in August. I’m excited to compare the Korean food they have created for a New York audience with what we make at Miss Kim. 

If you’re like me, you might find yourself appreciating the nuances of Korean cuisine, feeling inspired to try new things with an open mind, and very (very) hungry right about now. Say hello to Chef Ji Hye for me when you get to Miss Kim!

Sara Hudson
Zingerman’s Creative Services Director

This interview originally appeared in the May / June edition of Zingerman’s News.

Surrender to the Sweet Spell of Allison Schraf and Zingerman’s Candy Store

I was thrilled to meet Candy Store manager Allison Schraf at Zingerman’s Coffee Company for some morning caffeine and a chat about what she’s been up to. Like so many Zingerman’s passionate food professionals, Allison’s career path began elsewhere. In her case, with a degree in Equestrian Studies followed by training horses and managing horse farms. Uncovering a zeal for cooking and moving from New York City to Ann Arbor (with several stops in between) led her to a career in specialty food shops. Thus far, her 19-year Zingerman’s career includes product specialist and staff supervisor for Zingerman’s Delicatessen from 1998 to 2006, wholesale sales manager for Zingerman’s Candy Manufactory from 2012 to 2017, and Candy Manufactory retail manager from 2017 to the present.

Although we have worked together for decades and I’m a regular at the Zingerman’s Candy Store, I learned many new things and was really energized by our talk. Her love of what she does, enthusiasm for customer service and a guided shopping experience (aka a confection consultation), and the joy that comes with being around candy is simply inexhaustible. I hope you have the pleasure of experiencing it for yourself, and very soon!

Sara Hudson
Zingerman’s Creative Services Director

Sara: How would you describe the feel of Zingerman’s Candy Store in a few words?
Allison: Magic. Warmth. Abundance. Joy. Fun.

Sara: What do guests say when they step inside for the first time?
Allison: I have found people in America have a complicated relationship with candy, or maybe more accurately, with treating themselves. Some common comments are: “This is a dangerous place,” “This is so sinful,” and “I don’t eat this stuff, it’s for my grandmother.” Others who happily give in to the joy say: “This is magical,” “I want to eat all of it,” or “You have so many things I’ve never seen before!”

One woman recently came in with great urgency and said “I heard you have calissons!” (a traditional French confection made of almond marzipan and candied orange melon). With tears in her eyes, she shared that they remind her of her family and childhood. Candy pulls on people’s memories of special times and special people. We get to watch them access those memories when they are in the store.

Sara: What would you tell someone about Zingerman’s Candy Store who’s never been?
Allison: There is something for everyone! Craft chocolate for every taste, hand-made candy bars and nut brittles, flavorful gummies and fruit jellies, locally-made bonbons, imported Scandinavian licorice, Italian marzipan, Spanish nougat, nostalgic hard candies, vegan milk chocolate, and more! Our staff is here to help you choose the right treat for yourself or gift for someone else.

Sara: What’s the best part of your job as Candy Store manager?
Allison: The very best part of my job is curating the product mix. It is endlessly exciting to learn about and explore the enormous world of confections and then bring them to the store to delight our guests.

Sara: What is your philosophy when sourcing a new confection?
Allison: We love updated nostalgia, when your inner child meets your grown-up palate and they have a good time together! A great example is the Askinosie chocolate-covered malt balls. You probably grew up with a version of chocolate malt balls as a kid, but maybe now you would love them to be made with better quality ingredients and more flavorful dark chocolate. The Askinosie version pleases your childhood memory and your adult palate.

Like all Zingerman’s businesses, we are guided by seeking out traditionally made foods. Some traditions are disappearing, so we try to champion these things, make them available to those who are looking for them, and introduce them to new fans. For instance, I knew I wanted to import really high-quality artisan Italian marzipan, so I searched and tasted (for two years!) before finally finding the one! They’re really special.

Sara: What’s next on your search?
Allison: I would like to add more confections from India, China, and the Middle East to expand the variety of flavor profiles we have in the shop. We’re also continuing to grow our “Provisions” selections which are non-candy items like nuts, dried fruits, sauces, syrups, and snacks to round out your pantry.

Sara: How many items does the candy store offer?
Allison: We offer around 400 to 500 items year round! More than 60 of those are handmade in-house by the skilled candy cooks at Zingerman’s Candy Manufactory. You’ll find an even larger selection during the holidays when we’re stacked with seasonal exclusives.

Sara: Tell me about the “chocolate wall.”
Allison: We have about 100 different bars of craft chocolate in the candy store (that expands for the holidays) and we are looking for new and amazing craft chocolate all the time. You can find white, milk, dark, vegan, the full spectrum of cacao percentages 40-100%, and a world of flavors–from the familiar peanut butter, raspberry, and coconut to the less-common cardamom, bergamot, and hot paprika.

Sara: How does one pick from 100 bars?
Allison: I ask four questions to find out where you are in your journey with craft chocolate. (That’s Step 1 in Zingerman’s 4 Steps To Great Service, find out what the customer wants!) Based on your answers, I choose two or three recommendations and offer a taste. Typically people are surprised and delighted at the thought of samples, but also those lovely Midwest manners kick in and they say, “Oh no. Don’t go to any trouble. Not if you have to open it.” But once they taste, it’s highly likely they’re going home with a new favorite confection. Watching them as they taste and seeing their reaction, it’s just the most fun. I had the same experience at the Deli seeing people leave so happy with their choice and they found the perfect things. We’re so lucky to be able to do that.

Allison’s 4 Questions to Guide Chocolate Choices

1. Is it for you or someone else?
   (If it’s a gift you might not have answers to the rest of the questions)
2. Dark or milk?
3. If dark, what %?
   (It’s okay if you don’t have an answer, we’ll help.)
4. Stuff in it, or not?
   (The industry term is inclusions, but we think that sounds too posh. We’re aiming for easy!)

Sara: What are your picks for the most unusual, rare, and prized treasures on your shelves today?
Allison: 

• Unusual: Askinosie’s Sweet Potato Pie white chocolate bar (with toasted mini marshmallows!)
• Rare: Caputo’s Wild Juruá foraged Brazilian cacao, a 70% dark chocolate bar by Luisa Abram
• Prized: Ziba Shakhurbai Almonds, an ancient heirloom variety grown in Afghanistan

Sara: What are your personal top three favorites right now?
Allison: That is so hard! I am excited about these lately, in no particular order:

• Fruition’s Bolivian Wild Harvest, a 74% dark chocolate bar 
• Coloma Garcia Tender Turron with Marcona almonds and orange blossom honey
• Zingerman’s Candy Manufactory Peanut Brittle

Confection Consultation

Our interview gave me sweet daydreams of candy, so I headed back to the store to buy my usual favorites: Omnom Sea Salted Caramel Chocolate Malt Balls, J. Patrice Lime Coconut bonbons, and an Askinosie Coconut Milk Chocolate bar. Lucky me, Allison was still working and gave me my very own confection consultation. In just a few minutes, she introduced me to things I had never even noticed or tried before, especially after she zeroed in on my love for coconut, like strawberry cheesecake bonbons, fruit punch vegan gummies, and coconut hard candies. I didn’t know I needed a personal candy shopper in my life, but a confection consultation made my experience so much sweeter. I highly recommend you try it out!

This interview originally appeared in the March / April 2024 edition of Zingerman’s News. Check out the latest issue now!

An Interview with Joan Nathan

Meet Joan Nathan, world-renowned authority on Jewish cooking, James Beard and IACP award-winning author of 11 cookbooks, New York Times and Tablet Magazine contributor, star of the PBS television series Jewish Cooking in America with Joan Nathan, University of Michigan alum, and friend of Zingerman’s.

We’ve followed Joan’s career and admired her work since she met our founder Ari’s mother in the kosher section of a Chicago grocer in the ’90s. Joan shines a spotlight on the spectrum of flavors and traditions of Jewish food that exist all around the world, something near and dear to our hearts here at Zingerman’s.

I sat down with Joan in advance of her upcoming tour for the release of her twelfth book, My Life in Recipes (Knopf, 2024). Her trip includes stops at The Temple Emanu-El Streicker Cultural Center in New York City, Akasha restaurant in California, The Smithsonian in Washington D.C., and Ann Arbor to visit us (and you?) at Zingerman’s Roadhouse on May 7! After our interview, I found myself missing my grandmother, daydreaming about traveling more, and wishing I could tear into a warm loaf of challah with Joan.

Sara Hudson
Zingerman’s Creative Services Director

Sara: Your newest book, My Life In Recipes: Food, Family, and Memories is part memoir, part cookbook, and organized almost like a travel diary. How did the idea to present your story that way come about?
Joan: I thought, “What should I do next?” I told myself this is the time to stop and do a last book. I’ve had a really interesting life. My editor suggested I do a totally new kind of book that nobody’s ever done. Very often chef memoirs put one recipe at the end. She said, “Why don’t you do a memoir and recipes?”

Sara: Tell me about the process of creating the book.
Joan: The process took a few years. I started writing, but my husband got very sick and he died. And then, of course, there was Covid after that. At first, I couldn’t do anything for several months, but then I went to visit my daughter in New Orleans and I started writing. I got up very early in the morning and wrote in bed, which I love to do. I would take long walks and think about what I had written. Then I’d put it all away and take a break. In the end, my editor cut 30,000 words. I had so many stories to tell! Putting it all together amazed me.

Sara: Some of my favorite parts of the book are the old photos, diary entries, and letters to your family. Who do we have to thank for saving all of those?
Joan: My mother saved everything for me. When I went to France as a student, when I went to Israel to work—she saved all my letters. I saved my diaries. I wrote my diary in French when I was studying in France—I can’t believe I did that! 

Sara: As you collected your life stories was there anything you thought, “I can’t believe that happened!”?
Joan: We tried to keep the stories to be only about food but there are certain things I wanted to include, like the time I met Marilyn Monroe. I found it in my diary from when I was 12 years old. I saved her autograph. It’s framed in my house.

Sara: What led you to this full life of travel and learning?
Joan: Maybe this is because of my parents, but I’ve always felt I could do whatever I wanted to do. I thought, “Just do what you want in life. I mean, just go for it.”

Sara: Tell us about one of your favorite more recent trips.
Joan: I was taken with cinnamon because in the Geniza, a hidden trove of ephemera in synagogues and mosques in the Middle Ages, I found mention of the spice. For my 70th birthday, I told my husband I wanted to go to Sri Lanka with the whole family because that was the home of cinnamon. Before I go anywhere, I find families to go to see and see the place through their eyes. I went on my own to a family in a neighboring town that worked in the cinnamon industry. They were making something just like a cinnamon babka on the side of the street. I use that recipe in the book.

Sara: For the most part, you have been baking a loaf of challah every week since the 1970s. Does anyone ever bake it with you?
Joan: That’s a good question. My assistant Hannah is a very good baker. She’ll help me and I’ll learn from her. I rarely buy a challah. Most of the time I do make it. It’s not very hard to do once you know how and it can be done very quickly. My hands in the photo on the cover show I’ve been making it for a long time! I try to have a Friday night dinner either at my house or somebody else’s every week, and I make the challah.

Sara: I love the recipe in the book you call Seasonal Challah. What inspired that?
Joan: That just happened. I live in Martha’s Vineyard in the summer and I have a big garden with lots of herbs. So I took whatever seasonal herbs there were and put them in my challah dough. I thought it was really good, and if you make it at home, you can do that. There’s tarragon in my garden and it’s one of my favorite herbs, but I like to save it for other things besides challah. You have to have a strong flavor to get through the baking. I like using basil in the summer and rosemary in the fall. I also like putting anise in my challah which makes for such a wonderful flavor. But I don’t like raisins in challah. Raisins are for stuffed cabbage, with onions, pine nuts, Italian spinach, and sardines.

Sara: What do you have planned for your upcoming book tour besides your visit to Ann Arbor and the Zingerman’s Roadhouse dinner?
Joan: I’m giving speeches in San Francisco and New York. Ruth Reichl is interviewing me at an event at Temple Emanu-El for 1,000 people!

Sara: What are you looking forward to about coming back to Ann Arbor for the first time in more than a decade?
Joan: Ann Arbor was a big part of my life when I was in school there. It was natural that I would come back to it for this book. I’m looking forward to going back to my own history, but some of the places I frequented in Ann Arbor decades ago aren’t there anymore. It’s just sort of a memory, but Ari’s made Ann Arbor so much more tantalizing with what has grown from the Deli through the years. I need to see Zingerman’s. I’m looking forward to seeing how it has yet again morphed into something more, because it has every time I visit. I’m looking forward to seeing Ari. This is fun for me to see because I’ve been following Ari for years after meeting him in the early ’90s on a book tour. I just looked at a photo of him. He never had gray hair when I was there and he’s got a little gray hair now. I do too, but I cover it.

Joan proudly read me an excerpt from Jewish Cooking in America that references Zingerman’s:

When I first heard about Ari Weinzweig’s Delicatessen in Ann Arbor, Michigan, I couldn’t believe it was a deli in the home of my alma mater. It’s not really a deli, but more of an International Food Emporium like New York’s Zabar’s with the definite Jewish touch. Mr. Weinzweig, a dropout PhD candidate, has taken an academic and appetizing interest in updating Jewish recipes like mushroom and barley soup going back in history to the 19th century Eastern European version similar to that served at New York’s Second Avenue Deli.

Sara: What will be on the menu when you host a special dinner and book signing at Zingerman’s Roadhouse?
Joan: Smoked Whitefish Spread, Galilean Hummus, and Syrian Mahammar all served with bagel chips, Armenian Stuffed Grape Leaves, Mediterranean Salmon with preserved lemon and za’atar, and much more. For dessert, Ann Arbor Schnecken, those wonderful sticky buns they used to serve at Drake’s that Frank Carollo also made at Zingerman’s Bakehouse. [Editor’s note: You might know them today as Obama Buns!]

Sara: One chapter title stood out to me: “Jerusalem: Learning About Living and the Meaning of the Meal.” What do you think the meaning of a meal is?
Joan: When you sit down with a person of a different background, maybe with different beliefs, I try to take the time to watch the meaning of food within that meal. In that chapter, I talk about going to an Arab home. The first thing served is coffee before the meal. It leads into the meal. People just relax and as you talk to each other things sort of slow down. It’s not just in Arab homes, but Jewish homes in the Middle East and everywhere. You start slowly, whet your appetite, get to know people as human beings, and enjoy a meal together. I’ve really seen this around the world, the importance of food and sharing it with a stranger.

Sara: How do you approach your recipes?
Joan: The traditional food and recipes I study have been made the same for thousands of years, carried down from generation to generation. Sometimes we need to freshen them up a little bit. That’s what I try to do in my books, so there’s a little bit of added color and a little less fat, but the essential taste is there and that’s the important thing.

I think all of us live too disconnected from what other people’s reality is and so that’s what really interests me, trying to get the humanity of everyone. That’s what I’ve tried to do for my whole life. I get a high from finding a recipe, but I don’t get excited by fancy schmancy restaurants. Maybe that’s why I like Ari so much, I have a feeling he’s the same way. He’s discovering artisan food producers and highlighting those people. That’s what I like to do.

Sara: You’ve traveled a lot and experienced different cultures, languages, and flavors. What was the common thread in those experiences and recipes?
Joan: Humanity. Pride in what you’re making. I notice that universally.

Sara: If you were to go back and add another chapter of what you’ve been eating or making at home since completing the book, what would you include?
Joan: Wow. That’s a tough one. I think I put it all in the book. I might have added the story of another adventure I’ve been on. Or I might have added something like brownies or chocolate chip cookies because my kids really like them, but you can get recipes for those anywhere. Actually, I have an update of a children’s book coming out in November I did with my grandchildren called A Sweet Year. Every grandmother is going to want to buy this book because the photos of my grandchildren are so good and I include fun things: a pomegranate punch, how to make cheese and butter, recipes for what I named East Coast and West Coast Brownies.

Sara: What do your grandchildren ask you to show them how to make?
Joan: They like to perfect making eggs in the microwave, it’s sort of like sous vide. They experiment with different toppings and make faces with the eggs and Challah. We make pesto and pasta from scratch together all the time. I’ve even shown them how they can make their own fresh cheese.

Sara: I want to show you this well-worn Cooking with Joan pot holder that’s hanging in our kitchen here at Zingerman’s Service Network. You’re here with us.
Joan: Oh my gosh! Look at that. I don’t even have one of those. I hope I get to meet you. You’ve really done your homework. Thank you so much.
Sara: Thank you so much for your time. Congratulations on the book. We’ll see you at your dinner!

Bring on the zing. Occupy the kiddos in style or take a moment to destress yourself. In fact, let’s all sit down and color together. Because together, we are amaZING. Below you can download and print eight different Zingerman’s Community of Businesses coloring pages. Have fun!

We’d love to see your work, if you care to share! Send us a pic on Twitter, Facebook or Instagram with #zingermans.

Click the links below to download & print each coloring page:

Sunny Day Deli
Bakehouse Party
Cornman Farms
Honey Bees
Miss Kim
Roadshow Teapot
Food In Space
Sundae Fun